BSA questions.

[XTreme]

8 minutes ago, Saul said:

I agree with you there nobody really wanted anything British when I was a youngster, with perhaps the exception of a Bonnie or a Commando.  Japs were faster and more reliable, but still made out of chocolate metal and in effect deteriorating dynamite especially in the hands of ham fisted youngsters.    Bikes in general are far better more reliable products now.    I think because my mindset is still back there, is why I like my Himalayan so much,  it is vastly superior to many of the bikes I had back then, slower than some of them but a much better made machine, with the exception of my aircooled BMWs.  But fuck me were they expensive back then, as now.    

I had a Bonnie in the early 1980s and it was a dog, probably worth a mint now as it was a Jubilee edition but mine had had several careless ham fisted owners before me and to be honest at 19 I had no clue either.  I loved the sound it made when it was running but was very envious of my mates CX500 Custom when was so much better in everyway that mattered back then.     But having said all of that I am still a sucker for these new retro rides and I would have an Interceptor or Gold Star in a heartbeat if I had a place in my wallet and headspace  for a garage queen that I could polish and love and maybe ride on a sunny day.  

I even remember the reg numbers of all of the Brits back then!

BSA Bantam DMR277C, BSA B33 UDE141, Triumph 350 3TA CEJ714D.....that was ex-Welsh Water Board.

I pushed all of the fuckers.....especially the Bantam! 

[Saul]

1 minute ago, XTreme said:

I even remember the reg numbers of all of the Brits back then!

BSA Bantam DMR277C, BSA B33 UDE141, Triumph 350 3TA CEJ714D.....that was ex-Welsh Water Board.

I pushed all of the fuckers.....especially the Bantam! 

That's a new level of geekery mate I can't remember old reg numbers,     I laugh now when I look at old bikes for sale, almost anything old and British or Japanese fetches a premium except Bantams nobody wants those bloody things.  . I remember a mate had what was in effect a Yam DT175 with an ugly BSA tank and badges on it.  Horrible looking thing, although it was a puckker factory product thing not something he made up.    I wish I could remember more about it.  

[XTreme]

7 minutes ago, Saul said:

That's a new level of geekery mate I can't remember old reg numbers,     I laugh now when I look at old bikes for sale, almost anything old and British or Japanese fetches a premium except Bantams nobody wants those bloody things.  . I remember a mate had what was in effect a Yam DT175 with an ugly BSA tank and badges on it.  Horrible looking thing, although it was a puckker factory product thing not something he made up.    I wish I could remember more about it.  

Crazy thing is I can't remember any reg number from 1979 on!

But in my defence there has been 65 in all! 

[Slowlycatchymonkey]

1 hour ago, XTreme said:

I wouldn't buy British either!

Don't forget that I owned and rode a variety of Brit bikes from the 60's era: Norton, Triumph, BSA, RE, AJS, Matchless, Francis Barnett......I've even been on the back of an Ariel Square Four!

And without exception they were agricultural and unreliable.....which is why the Japs were able to kill them all off.

None of those names (with the possible exception of Triumph) are something to aspire to. Something to avoid more like.

I'm sure the modern Indian bikes are a lot better.....but it still doesn't get away from the fact that the name of the brand is the selling point! 

And those names weren't that fucking great in the first place.

Yer and once upon a time Jap bikes were a joke, things change, it's not the 60's anymore.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying they're great, I can't, I haven't ridden one, neither have you but they're not going to be the crap engineering you rode way back when.

I wouldn't write them off based on experiences of many decades ago. If you'd done that you wouldn't be riding your fine Jap bike now.

Yes they are trading on looks and nostalgia but one foot in the past is popular as you often prove.

I also wouldn't write them off because they were called Punjab or Poppadom either. 

[Six30]

2 hours ago, Sir Fallsalot said:

This is the bike i wanted when they first started selling the CRF1000 very disappointed it was only somebodies vision of what it could be 

yeh , if they produced that ,id be having one.

[Six30]

3 hours ago, Six30 said:

Honda done it with the Africa Twin , I emailed Honda about it couple of years back , don’t think I got a reply 

 

shit picture ...  @Sir Fallsalot do your stuff

[Six30]

1 hour ago, XTreme said:

You wouldn't be buying this Indian Shite if the manufacturers' names were Punjab or Poppadom.

carefull now .... you racist cunt

[Six30]

3 hours ago, Buckster said:

Gay. 

get back to the circus ... your on in 10

[Six30]

8 minutes ago, Slowlycatchymonkey said:

Yer and once upon a time Jap bikes were a joke, things change, it's not the 60's anymore.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying they're great, I can't, I haven't ridden one, neither have you but they're not going to be the crap engineering you rode way back when.

I wouldn't write them off based on experiences of many decades ago. If you'd done that you wouldn't be riding your fine Jap bike now.

Yes they are trading on looks and nostalgia but one foot in the past is popular as you often prove.

I also wouldn't write them off because they were called Punjab or Poppadom either. 

pair of fucking idiots aint they.... no comparason to british bikes of the 60's or 70's .... 

[XTreme]

8 minutes ago, Slowlycatchymonkey said:

Yer and once upon a time Jap bikes were a joke, things change, it's not the 60's anymore.

No....Jap bikes were only a joke to the previous generation who were riding Brit bikes. The bikes themselves were excellent!

They called them Jap Crap and Sewing Machines......and then reluctantly admitted they were decent enough, but insisted the Japs could only build small bikes.

Then along came the CB750K0, and 3 years later the Z1 arrived!

By then it was game over for Brit bikes, and those guys with Commandos, Tridents, and Rocket 3's all went over to the Honda and the Kwak.

[Slowlycatchymonkey]

2 minutes ago, XTreme said:

No....Jap bikes were only a joke to the previous generation who were riding Brit bikes. The bikes themselves were excellent!

They called them Jap Crap and Sewing Machines......and then reluctantly admitted they were decent enough, but insisted the Japs could only build small bikes.

Then along came the CB750K0, and 3 years later the Z1 arrived!

By then it was game over for Brit bikes, and those guys with Commandos, Tridents, and Rocket 3's all went over to the Honda and the Kwak.

They were still considered a joke Pete, whether they were good or not they got dismissed because they weren't the favoured bike of that generation... sound familiar

If you took any marque that survived the idiocy of the British management that pumelled them into the ground and rode a bike from back them compared to now there would be a huge difference, they improved, they had to. 

[XTreme]

Just now, Slowlycatchymonkey said:

They were still considered a joke Pete, whether they were good or not they got dismissed because they weren't the favoured bike of that generation... sound familiar. 

But the Jap bikes were light years ahead of the existing bikes of that time.......and these Indian bikes are not!

The Japs brought in meticulous engineering assembled by a workforce who had a mindset of striving to achieve excellence in their work.

The Indians on the other hand bring cheap bikes with a familiar badge (as do the Chinese with Benelli and Moto Morini).....they bring nothing else to the table.

[Saul]

39 minutes ago, XTreme said:

Crazy thing is I can't remember any reg number from 1979 on!

But in my defence there has been 65 in all! 

Well you beat me I have only had 43, and I am not sure I could name them all now.  

[busabeast]

2 hours ago, XTreme said:

You wouldn't be buying this Indian Shite if the manufacturers' names were Punjab or Poppadom.

Bet they'd do a good curry though 

[Slowlycatchymonkey]

1 minute ago, XTreme said:

But the Jap bikes were light years ahead of the existing bikes of that time.......and these Indian bikes are not!

The Japs brought in meticulous engineering assembled by a workforce who had a mindset of striving to achieve excellence in their work.

The Indians on the other hand bring cheap bikes with a familiar badge (as do the Chinese with Benelli and Moto Morini).....they bring nothing else to the table.

There are plenty of people about who will testify that Jap bikes were at the beginning notoriously unreliable but even if they're all wrong and Jap bikes appeared on the scene fault free they still had to make the same journey, they just did it decades ago and the Indian market (who may never get there) are only at the beginning of making bikes just about good enough for a 1st World market. Having said that from the Indian market all you really have to go on is Royal Enfield who made mistakes and come from a completely different base to Mahindra.

I agree the Chinese are badge buyers but my point his you're condemning a bike (like so many others are) before it's even released. TBH even if it's outstanding I'd expect it to get bagged to death based on nothing more than old school prejudice. 

[Buckster]

nuff said.

[Sir Fallsalot]

7 minutes ago, Slowlycatchymonkey said:

There are plenty of people about who will testify that Jap bikes were at the beginning notoriously unreliable but even if they're all wrong and Jap bikes appeared on the scene fault free they still had to make the same journey, they just did it decades ago and the Indian market (who may never get there) are only at the beginning of making bikes just about good enough for a 1st World market. Having said that from the Indian market all you really have to go on is Royal Enfield who made mistakes and come from a completely different base to Mahindra.

I agree the Chinese are badge buyers but my point his you're condemning a bike (like so many others are) before it's even released. TBH even if it's outstanding I'd expect it to get bagged to death based on nothing more than old school prejudice. 

I have no idea where you getting the jap bikes were unreliable from , the only people i know that slagged them off were die hard brit bike owners, even the most unreliable jap bikes were as reliable as a good British bike from my experience.

When i was on a bike run in my late teens if anyone showed up on anything British we all rolled our eyes, not because we didn't like them but because we knew it would be a day full of stops to tinker or get the bloody thing going again, I remember following a mate on his triumph tiger (1970's bike) in the rain, it was that light drizzle sort of stuff but when we stopped for a chat i realised it wasn't raining, the piece of shit he was riding was leaking oil and the front of me and my bike were covered in it. He was behind me the rest of the ride LOL

[Saul]

24 minutes ago, XTreme said:

But the Jap bikes were light years ahead of the existing bikes of that time.......and these Indian bikes are not!

The Japs brought in meticulous engineering assembled by a workforce who had a mindset of striving to achieve excellence in their work.

The Indians on the other hand bring cheap bikes with a familiar badge (as do the Chinese with Benelli and Moto Morini).....they bring nothing else to the table.

But do they really need to bring anything new to the table, reasonably well made bike for a good affordable price sounds like good marketing to me.  Not many bikers who buy the latest GSXRR1FirebladeNinja or whatever really use the machines full potential.  They might boast they do but in reality?   I respect what most modern japanese machinery is,  but think most of it looks hideous, now if I could buy a Suzuki GS1000E  or Honda CB900 clone from the early 1980's I would love that.  I wouldn't bag some of the new chinese stuff either it is light years away from the cheap rubbish you could buy just 5 or 10 years ago.  Remember I bought a chinky bike in a box 12 years ago.  It was okay transport and worth what I paid for it.  Never going to impress anyone but it did what I wanted pretty reliably.  

[Sir Fallsalot]

52 minutes ago, XTreme said:

No....Jap bikes were only a joke to the previous generation who were riding Brit bikes. The bikes themselves were excellent!

They called them Jap Crap and Sewing Machines......and then reluctantly admitted they were decent enough, but insisted the Japs could only build small bikes.

Then along came the CB750K0, and 3 years later the Z1 arrived!

By then it was game over for Brit bikes, and those guys with Commandos, Tridents, and Rocket 3's all went over to the Honda and the Kwak.

You beat me to it LOL

[XTreme]

13 minutes ago, Slowlycatchymonkey said:

There are plenty of people about who will testify that Jap bikes were at the beginning notoriously unreliable but even if they're all wrong and Jap bikes appeared on the scene fault free they still had to make the same journey, they just did it decades ago and the Indian market (who may never get there) are only at the beginning of making bikes just about good enough for a 1st World market. Having said that from the Indian market all you really have to go on is Royal Enfield who made mistakes and come from a completely different base to Mahindra.

I agree the Chinese are badge buyers but my point his you're condemning a bike (like so many others are) before it's even released. TBH even if it's outstanding I'd expect it to get bagged to death based on nothing more than old school prejudice. 

They might shift a lot of them based on badge and price, but as for the quality I'm not so sure.

I'm actually quite open to newer brands from different markets coming in......providing they are focussing on reaching comparable standards to the Japs rather than based on a "stack 'em high, sell 'em cheap" business model.

And at the moment I only see one company who potentially could cross over into the mainstream.....Loncin/Voge!

[Slowlycatchymonkey]

6 minutes ago, Sir Fallsalot said:

I have no idea where you getting the jap bikes were unreliable from , the only people i know that slagged them off were die hard brit bike owners, even the most unreliable jap bikes were as reliable as a good British bike from my experience.

When i was on a bike run in my late teens if anyone showed up on anything British we all rolled our eyes, not because we didn't like them but because we knew it would be a day full of stops to tinker or get the bloody thing going again, I remember following a mate on his triumph tiger (1970's bike) in the rain, it was that light drizzle sort of stuff but when we stopped for a chat i realised it wasn't raining, the piece of shit he was riding was leaking oil and the front of me and my bike were covered in it. He was behind me the rest of the ride LOL

As I said a lot of people will say they were unreliable at the beginning, I also said even if that's not true it doesn't matter, the manufacturers all have to go on that journey. The Brit bike industry blinkered arrogance meant some didn't and didnt survive as a consequence, eventually they started to catch up.. a bit. 

Theres no comparison between an unreliable Brit bike from the 60's/70's and now.

[Slowlycatchymonkey]

1 minute ago, XTreme said:

They might shift a lot of them based on badge and price, but as for the quality I'm not so sure.

I'm actually quite open to newer brands from different markets coming in......providing they are focussing on reaching comparable standards to the Japs rather than based on a "stack 'em high, sell 'em cheap" business model.

And at the moment I only see one company who potentially could cross over into the mainstream.....Loncin/Voge!

Yes you sound open

[Sir Fallsalot]

5 minutes ago, Slowlycatchymonkey said:

As I said a lot of people will say they were unreliable at the beginning, I also said even if that's not true it doesn't matter, the manufacturers all have to go on that journey. The Brit bike industry blinkered arrogance meant some didn't and didnt survive as a consequence, eventually they started to catch up.. a bit. 

Theres no comparison between an unreliable Brit bike from the 60's/70's and now.

I meant Jap bikes of the same age as British bikes in the 70's

[Saul]

3 minutes ago, Sir Fallsalot said:

I have no idea where you getting the jap bikes were unreliable from , the only people i know that slagged them off were die hard brit bike owners, even the most unreliable jap bikes were as reliable as a good British bike from my experience.

When i was on a bike run in my late teens if anyone showed up on anything British we all rolled our eyes, not because we didn't like them but because we knew it would be a day full of stops to tinker or get the bloody thing going again, I remember following a mate on his triumph tiger (1970's bike) in the rain, it was that light drizzle sort of stuff but when we stopped for a chat i realised it wasn't raining, the piece of shit he was riding was leaking oil and the front of me and my bike were covered in it. He was behind me the rest of the ride LOL

I had some unreliable Jap stuff, I remember a Suzuki GSX 250 that ate its on alternator as they all did, a CB250N with a rattly cam chain  and dissolving exhaust centre box, as Suzuki GS425 with the same cam chain issue, a Yam XS750 with a stretched cam chain.  Kawasaki's with plastic oil pumps.  There were plenty of  examples.  I agree much butter than previous Brit stuff that set a pretty low bar but the Japs had there faults as well.  They were piled high and sold cheap.  

[Slowlycatchymonkey]

2 minutes ago, XTreme said:

They might shift a lot of them based on badge and price, but as for the quality I'm not so sure.

I'm actually quite open to newer brands from different markets coming in......providing they are focussing on reaching comparable standards to the Japs rather than based on a "stack 'em high, sell 'em cheap" business model.

And at the moment I only see one company who potentially could cross over into the mainstream.....Loncin/Voge!

I'll be honest while I appreciate the excellence of the Japanese engineering, I don't share your enthusiasm for their work ethic or standards in general.

Poor old Uncle Doug was well and truly fucked forever after he was tortured in a Japanese Camp and would be turning in his grave if he knew I'd bought a Jap bike!