The Chinks are at it again why haven't i seen this before

[Sir Fallsalot]

 

[boboneleg]

There seems to be a lot of interest in this bike.  The Wongs are getting better and betterer at making motorcycles.  If the figures are to be believed it's 25kgs less than a T700, so why can't the Japs do that ?

[Sir Fallsalot]

2 hours ago, boboneleg said:

There seems to be a lot of interest in this bike.  The Wongs are getting better and betterer at making motorcycles.  If the figures are to be believed it's 25kgs less than a T700, so why can't the Japs do that ?

Its probably more like 30Kg less as it carries 6 more litres of fuel and it is supposed to have around 95 horses stuffed inside the engine, on paper it ticks all the boxes i'm interested in and looks good same as their 450. I'm hoping these bikes will wake the japs up and get them out of the ruts their stuck in.

[Buckster]

Has this got the KTM motor?

[XTreme]

2 minutes ago, Buckster said:

Has this got the KTM motor?

Yes......and it's shit apparently!

[Buckster]

2 hours ago, XTreme said:

Yes......and it's shit apparently!

So have you ordered one?

[Buckster]

[MooN]

On 08/11/2023 at 16:04, boboneleg said:

There seems to be a lot of interest in this bike.  The Wongs are getting better and betterer at making motorcycles.  If the figures are to be believed it's 25kgs less than a T700, so why can't the Japs do that ?

it's 25 k lighter cos theyve used 25k less metal in the frame and swingarm.... put it under some stress, real conditions with a load not press release day controlled conditions, new and prepared ( doctored) by a dedicated team and you'll find out where they'vs shaved the weight from.

 

To be fair I know nothing about this bike or this firm, but from what I know about chinese motorcycle production I am pretty confident that if it's cheaper its because the parts are mede cheaper ( low quality materials, unskilled workers, and a healty disregard for any and all western rules and regarding safety, or norms, or garantees, all driven by a totalitarian communist régime.  I regularly see test rides of these bikes, or CF moto, in the motorcycling pess here and they rave about them ( well yeah, cos if they don't then they'll just not be invited to the next test day all expenses paid trip to Hawaii for the press trials on the dozen or so carefully prepared and doctored versions of the machine) you then never hear anything further. Why?  Because 8 months and 5000km down the line the bikes are falling apart, or are terminally ill and there are no parts available, the dealershave stopped dealing in them cos they can't get any parts or tech support from the factory and are wrapped up in legal proceedings and the factory is pointing out that under chinese law, which is the only one they recognise, you, as the end user, can go fuck youself . 

 

 Ok, I'm exagerating.

 

 

But only just. 

[boboneleg]

1 hour ago, MooN said:

it's 25 k lighter cos theyve used 25k less metal in the frame and swingarm.... put it under some stress, real conditions with a load not press release day controlled conditions, new and prepared ( doctored) by a dedicated team and you'll find out where they'vs shaved the weight from.

 

To be fair I know nothing about this bike or this firm, but from what I know about chinese motorcycle production I am pretty confident that if it's cheaper its because the parts are mede cheaper ( low quality materials, unskilled workers, and a healty disregard for any and all western rules and regarding safety, or norms, or garantees, all driven by a totalitarian communist régime.  I regularly see test rides of these bikes, or CF moto, in the motorcycling pess here and they rave about them ( well yeah, cos if they don't then they'll just not be invited to the next test day all expenses paid trip to Hawaii for the press trials on the dozen or so carefully prepared and doctored versions of the machine) you then never hear anything further. Why?  Because 8 months and 5000km down the line the bikes are falling apart, or are terminally ill and there are no parts available, the dealershave stopped dealing in them cos they can't get any parts or tech support from the factory and are wrapped up in legal proceedings and the factory is pointing out that under chinese law, which is the only one they recognise, you, as the end user, can go fuck youself . 

 

 Ok, I'm exagerating.

 

 

But only just. 

That's still the worry isn't it Chris but I have two mates who have bought the Kove450 Rally and they're quite impressed so far.  I think I prefer to wait until they're a couple of years old and then see what they're like .

[MooN]

2 hours ago, boboneleg said:

That's still the worry isn't it Chris but I have two mates who have bought the Kove450 Rally and they're quite impressed so far.  I think I prefer to wait until they're a couple of years old and then see what they're like .

specifically wait a couple of yeasrs and see what happens when they need replacement parts.  

 

 We have had to dismantle 6 brand new bikes into component parts in order to supply replacement parts to dealers of one of our chinese manufacturers as they are incapable of providing any parts. so we have one part of the assembly workshop putting shipped bikes together to be sent to the dealers, and the othe rhalf dismantling completely same model bikes so that we have some spare parts...

Madness I tell you!  

when you order parts for a quad that's maybe 5 years old and they reply we dont make that part anymore. Um... the law requires the constructor to supply replacement parts for 10 years... " Not chinese law." is the standard reply.  

 

i can only imagine what is gong to happen in a couple of years when all the new MG and Volvo suv's start needing replacement parts...

 

 I hope I am wrong, but I see a shit storm on the horizon. 

 

[XTreme]

12 minutes ago, MooN said:

I hope I am wrong, but I see a shit storm on the horizon. 

So do I!

[boboneleg]

2 hours ago, MooN said:

specifically wait a couple of yeasrs and see what happens when they need replacement parts.  

 

 We have had to dismantle 6 brand new bikes into component parts in order to supply replacement parts to dealers of one of our chinese manufacturers as they are incapable of providing any parts. so we have one part of the assembly workshop putting shipped bikes together to be sent to the dealers, and the othe rhalf dismantling completely same model bikes so that we have some spare parts...

Madness I tell you!  

when you order parts for a quad that's maybe 5 years old and they reply we dont make that part anymore. Um... the law requires the constructor to supply replacement parts for 10 years... " Not chinese law." is the standard reply.  

 

i can only imagine what is gong to happen in a couple of years when all the new MG and Volvo suv's start needing replacement parts...

 

 I hope I am wrong, but I see a shit storm on the horizon. 

 

Spares have always been the problem with Chinese bikes, you would have thought they'd sorted it out by now .

[XTreme]

3 minutes ago, boboneleg said:

Spares have always been the problem with Chinese bikes, you would have thought they'd sorted it out by now .

They never will, cos to them motorcycles are disposable items. 

[boboneleg]

6 minutes ago, XTreme said:

They never will, cos to them motorcycles are disposable items. 

When they were only building 125's and Scooter yes, but now theyre building big bikes and enduro/rally bikes so they'll surely have to make provivsion for spares back up ?

If small Euro companies like Beta, Sherco etc can do it then surely they can ?

[XTreme]

25 minutes ago, boboneleg said:

If small Euro companies like Beta, Sherco etc can do it then surely they can ?

They've got history in the industry and they're not built down to a budget.

[Buckster]

5 hours ago, XTreme said:

So do I!

I thought your shit storm was more local.

[MooN]

On 17/12/2023 at 17:35, boboneleg said:

When they were only building 125's and Scooter yes, but now theyre building big bikes and enduro/rally bikes so they'll surely have to make provivsion for spares back up ?

If small Euro companies like Beta, Sherco etc can do it then surely they can ?

The law is the same, big or small bikes. The number of small bikes sold is massive compared to the number of big bikes. Why would they treat big bikes differently ? 
 

re the smaller european brands, its a VERY different mentality. You have some hope of compensation if you get sold a lemon by a european brand. The Chinese say «  good luck with that » as they do not recognise international law and, as yet, have no need to. 
 

 

[Pedro]

7 minutes ago, MooN said:

The law is the same, big or small bikes. The number of small bikes sold is massive compared to the number of big bikes. Why would they treat big bikes differently ? 
 

re the smaller european brands, its a VERY different mentality. You have some hope of compensation if you get sold a lemon by a european brand. The Chinese say «  good luck with that » as they do not recognise international law and, as yet, have no need to. 
 

 

Surely there’s a minimum warranty for vehicles sold in the EU?

[boboneleg]

1 minute ago, Pedro said:

Surely there’s a minimum warranty for vehicles sold in the EU?

What's the EU  .................

 

[Pedro]

23 minutes ago, boboneleg said:

What's the EU  .................

 

[XTreme]

23 minutes ago, boboneleg said:

What's the EU  .................

They've got the power to block all Chinky imports to EU member states!

[MooN]

3 hours ago, Pedro said:

Surely there’s a minimum warranty for vehicles sold in the EU?

yep. That's EU law and they will abide by that for exactly as long as they want to. they know as well, if not better than, anyone that there is no way in hell any eu law could be enforced in china, who would impose whatever sanction was applied?  you could sue the dealer, the importer, whoever but try and sue a chinese company with an EU law... their govt does not recognise Eu law.   They conform to safety norms to be able to sell their vehicles within the EU, that's as far as it goes. 

This is, of course just my opinion.

[MooN]

3 hours ago, XTreme said:

They've got the power to block all Chinky imports to EU member states!

They already have most of central africa financially over a barrel cos they've been heavily investing in infrastructure there for the last 10 years or so and that comes at a price that hasn't yet been disclosed but that I suspect will be a commercial monopoly of some description. They have now started trying to invest in eurpean infrastructure as this will allow them financial control there too.   

 

 I'm starting to sound like that other conspiracy wanker, so I'll stop drinking.

[Pedro]

17 minutes ago, MooN said:

yep. That's EU law and they will abide by that for exactly as long as they want to. they know as well, if not better than, anyone that there is no way in hell any eu law could be enforced in china, who would impose whatever sanction was applied?  you could sue the dealer, the importer, whoever but try and sue a chinese company with an EU law... their govt does not recognise Eu law.   They conform to safety norms to be able to sell their vehicles within the EU, that's as far as it goes. 

This is, of course just my opinion.

I get it, but if they’re looking for long term sales they should comply with demands.

BMW sure as shit would have a good warranty unless mandated.

[MooN]

On 19/12/2023 at 21:46, Pedro said:

I get it, but if they’re looking for long term sales they should comply with demands.

BMW sure as shit would have a good warranty unless mandated.

I'm not sure they are looking for long term sales.  Maybe some of them are, after all ts a fucking HUUUUGE place and mentalities obviously differ across such a vast country. We have maybe 2 or 3 of our suppliers who actually seem serious about improving quality and service, the rest... not so much. If I go back through the qualityreports sent to certain suppliers I will find identical reports about the same items going back 5 or more years related directly to the quality of build and of materiels used, with a similar reply " Oh we velly velly solly, that made by bad people in ploduction line, we fix plobrem, chop chop..!"  ( if you don't find that offensively racist then you're probably over 50 ) and this has been going on for years, to the point that we struggle to find dealers for these machines cos most competant mechanics won't touch them.  my boss reckons that another 4 or 5 years will see that particular supplier dissappear ( he's seen it before) and is already diminishing business with them so that we have as few machines as possible still under warranty when they do go pop. To be fair we have some prototupe machines from another supplier that ARE improved and do show signs of actually wanting to increase quality so just maybe...