CFMoto 450MT Coming in 2024

[Pedro]

1 hour ago, Skippy said:

How’s that possible if they are an official KTM dealer? I would have thought they couldn’t pick and choose what they sold?

You would be wrong, in this case. KTM dealerships used to only sell race bikes, because that's what they made, then with the adventure range dealerships got separated into two categories, the more "advanced" ones being able to sell and be authorized service shops for the more complicated engines and even more importantly, to cope with warranty claims which was not an issue with racebikes as there is no warranty on motocross or enduro bikes. 

The "very small" dealership I'm talking about is one of Portugal's most competent's shops regarding mechanics, they used to run Yamaha's Superbikes and Supersport efforts here, race bikes to the highest level. Ohlins uses them as their service provider for all Öhlins supported race bikes in Portugal. They used to sell a small number of KTM adventure bikes so some clients that used them for maintenance and wanted to buy a new bike. They easily got the licensing to sell those bikes and all was going ok until the chinese bikes appeared, after a couple of years of that they decline orders to sell or service those bikes, they have annoying faults from new and KTM doesn't solve it in serviceable times. Above all else, apparently KTM dealerships have authority on what bikes they order and display for sale, so they do what they please, and in this case decide to keep away from a troublesome line of bikes except if a valued client absolutely wants them to go through the chore of it.

[Skippy]

27 minutes ago, XTreme said:

One thing I've been thinking about for a while now......why are the Japs putting up no opposition to the Chinkies in the 125-450 Trail/Adv/Rally segment? 

It's like they're willing to let them have that sector of lower priced bikes because they want the larger capacity, more expensive part of the market.

That's a bike mistake.....the Brits thought like that in the 60's. People said the Jap bikes were "sewing machines" and they couldn't build a good big one!

Then the CB750 K0 arrived in 1969! It changed everything, and within 3 years along came the Z1.

And those buyers of the small Japs in the 60's became customers for life and there was no British motorcycle industry left.

Exactly. So I’m right then.

[Skippy]

8 minutes ago, Pedro said:

You would be wrong, in this case. KTM dealerships used to only sell race bikes, because that's what they made, then with the adventure range dealerships got separated into two categories, the more "advanced" ones being able to sell and be authorized service shops for the more complicated engines and even more importantly, to cope with warranty claims which was not an issue with racebikes as there is no warranty on motocross or enduro bikes. 

The "very small" dealership I'm talking about is one of Portugal's most competent's shops regarding mechanics, they used to run Yamaha's Superbikes and Supersport efforts here, race bikes to the highest level. Ohlins uses them as their service provider for all Öhlins supported race bikes in Portugal. They used to sell a small number of KTM adventure bikes so some clients that used them for maintenance and wanted to buy a new bike. They easily got the licensing to sell those bikes and all was going ok until the chinese bikes appeared, after a couple of years of that they decline orders to sell or service those bikes, they have annoying faults from new and KTM doesn't solve it in serviceable times. Above all else, apparently KTM dealerships have authority on what bikes they order and display for sale, so they do what they please, and in this case decide to keep away from a troublesome line of bikes except if a valued client absolutely wants them to go through the chore of it.

Well I guess you learn something every day!

[Pedro]

I like that the 450cc chinese trail/travel bike has tubeless spoked wheels, they must have been listening on my phone!

[XTreme]

9 minutes ago, Skippy said:

Exactly. So I’m right then.

The Japs proved themselves.....the Chinks haven't!

And I'm not altogether convinced they ever will.

[Pedro]

12 minutes ago, XTreme said:

The Japs proved themselves.....the Chinks haven't!

And I'm not altogether convinced they ever will.

Got to give them time, they eventually will. They have something on their side, which is old school build quality. China currently hasn't caught up with a lot of environmental restrictions that affect builders in Europe and Japan, so they can make things in a way that other manufacturers already can't. For example, a few coatings used on delicate Ducati, KTM and BMW valve trains are now being made in China because they can still make them to a higher quality. 

Yes, eventually it´ll be US and China making good quality bikes!

[Buckster]

2 hours ago, XTreme said:

Yes.....Kove have done something.

But how long have the Chink bikes been circulating worldwide and none of the others have done jack shit.

They haven't proven their engines!

They proved them in BMW, you even had one yourself.

[XTreme]

8 hours ago, Buckster said:

They proved them in BMW, you even had one yourself.

Rotax engine!

[Catteeclan]

Dirty polluting spying bastards can go do one, and take their poorly built crap with them.

[Sir Fallsalot]

11 hours ago, XTreme said:

It's not early days Ray......they've been offloading their shit for about 20 years now!

Yamaha were competing worldwide 13 years after two Atomic Bombs were dropped on them!

If you were 70 years old in the 40’s you would be talking the same way about the japs you’re looking back at what they have achieved not what they could achieve their bikes build quality is getting worse and the chunk stuff is getting better. I can see that between my old and new model Africa twin

[Buckster]

1 hour ago, XTreme said:

Rotax engine!

No it was a Zongchen special.

[XTreme]

1 hour ago, Sir Fallsalot said:

their bikes build quality is getting worse

Probably connected to building outside Japan.

How many Jap bikes are solely built in Japan these days? Cos apparently the new Stroms are built in India!

[Saul]

2 hours ago, XTreme said:

Probably connected to building outside Japan.

How many Jap bikes are solely built in Japan these days? Cos apparently the new Stroms are built in India!

That's an interesting point.  You know the dramas I had with the Bagster tank bag marking the paint on my CB500.  I was talking to the salesman about it and said I hope the Hornets paint isn't so soft, he winked at me and said you'll be fine with Japanese paint.     Now I don't know weather to read anything into that as he had his own agenda I am sure but it did make me wonder.    Also I was up Damerells months ago with a mate who was looking at a CF Moto 650GT loaded tourer.     We were talking generally about CF Moto and if they were any good, the same salesman said they 650 are fine but the 800's ECU's are failing to a point where it is difficult to get replacements and that is part of why they were giving up the franchise.  Not reading anything more into anything he said but I find it interesting hearing the gossip.  

[XTreme]

12 minutes ago, Saul said:

That's an interesting point.  You know the dramas I had with the Bagster tank bag marking the paint on my CB500.  I was talking to the salesman about it and said I hope the Hornets paint isn't so soft, he winked at me and said you'll be fine with Japanese paint.     Now I don't know weather to read anything into that as he had his own agenda I am sure but it did make me wonder.    Also I was up Damerells months ago with a mate who was looking at a CF Moto 650GT loaded tourer.     We were talking generally about CF Moto and if they were any good, the same salesman said they 650 are fine but the 800's ECU's are failing to a point where it is difficult to get replacements and that is part of why they were giving up the franchise.  Not reading anything more into anything he said but I find it interesting hearing the gossip.  

They're stopping selling them?

[Clive]

35 minutes ago, Saul said:

That's an interesting point.  You know the dramas I had with the Bagster tank bag marking the paint on my CB500.  I was talking to the salesman about it and said I hope the Hornets paint isn't so soft, he winked at me and said you'll be fine with Japanese paint.     Now I don't know weather to read anything into that as he had his own agenda I am sure but it did make me wonder.    Also I was up Damerells months ago with a mate who was looking at a CF Moto 650GT loaded tourer.     We were talking generally about CF Moto and if they were any good, the same salesman said they 650 are fine but the 800's ECU's are failing to a point where it is difficult to get replacements and that is part of why they were giving up the franchise.  Not reading anything more into anything he said but I find it interesting hearing the gossip.  

Out of the 6 guys that was in our CFMoto650 group only 1 bike did not has the ECU go POP, they were the Ducati Veglia ECU,s......the Bosch ones fitted to later models were said to be much better.

[Saul]

1 hour ago, XTreme said:

They're stopping selling them?

 That's what I understood.   

[Pedro]

In my opinion that is one of the issues with anything chinese. The confidence they inspire so far is pretty poor when it comes to parts availability or long term support.

Similar to buying an Aprilia  

[Sir Fallsalot]

6 hours ago, XTreme said:

Probably connected to building outside Japan.

How many Jap bikes are solely built in Japan these days? Cos apparently the new Stroms are built in India!

My 2016 Africa Twin was made in Japan and like i said before if my bike was like my mates it might have put me off Honda all together he had so many issues to do with build quality

[Sir Fallsalot]

3 hours ago, Saul said:

That's an interesting point.  You know the dramas I had with the Bagster tank bag marking the paint on my CB500.  I was talking to the salesman about it and said I hope the Hornets paint isn't so soft, he winked at me and said you'll be fine with Japanese paint.     Now I don't know weather to read anything into that as he had his own agenda I am sure but it did make me wonder.    Also I was up Damerells months ago with a mate who was looking at a CF Moto 650GT loaded tourer.     We were talking generally about CF Moto and if they were any good, the same salesman said they 650 are fine but the 800's ECU's are failing to a point where it is difficult to get replacements and that is part of why they were giving up the franchise.  Not reading anything more into anything he said but I find it interesting hearing the gossip.  

Saul for everything to become good for the environment we have to put up with shit products most vehicle paint is now water based so not as tough and hard wearing as the cellulose paints of old

[Catteeclan]

Build quality of my TDM is much better than the Tracer. I suspect some of the parts for the later were prob made in China.

[Pedro]

51 minutes ago, Catteeclan said:

Build quality of my TDM is much better than the Tracer. I suspect some of the parts for the later were prob made in China.

China is often used by today’s manufacturers to make specific engine parts with higher quality coatings than what is allowed to be produced in europe or america. Good quality stuff is not nice to the environment to produce.